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have we lost the joy of eating?

Riotproof's Photo Riotproof 14 Jun 2019

https://www.goodfood...X6FMLLrt66BdDHM

https://www.smh.com....531-p51t45.html

I’m starting to see “orthorexia nervosa“ which is defined as a preoccupation with eating only “clean food” as a gateway to anorexia nervosa.

Even the very phrasing of “clean food” versus unclean, junk, processed? (What do we want to call it? ) is a bit troubling. I don’t think we should see any food as bad, other than arsenic and other food based poison.

I feel like the focus should be on moving more, eating more plants, eating seasonally, mindfully. Shame has never really helped anyone change their behaviour, has it?

WDYT?
Edited by Riotproof, 14 June 2019 - 12:10 PM.
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seayork2002's Photo seayork2002 14 Jun 2019

I do get your point but not in my house - we are pigs (well DS eats like a sparrow but the choose is piglet like)

I think there a re a lot of cooking shows that may be people think differently.
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purplekitty's Photo purplekitty 14 Jun 2019

I've seen quite a few dieticians discuss these diets paleo/keto etc.on social media as trendy,disordered eating syndromes.
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Daffy2016's Photo Daffy2016 14 Jun 2019

I kind of feel that food has taken the place of religion in our more secular/religiously tolerant society.

Food is either clean or good, and eating ‘well’ or resisting temptation is something we perform publicly.

‘Bad’ food is something we can indulge in openly too, but only by acknowledging it’s bad and only if we don’t display the outward signs of our sins - eg getting fat.

Basically, it’s a way to prove our ‘worth’ to others and to be judged as suitable for society or not.

There’s some interesting reading online about performing the ritual of the ‘good fatty’ too - not eating or only eating salads etc.
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seayork2002's Photo seayork2002 14 Jun 2019

One thing  I have never understood is 'I crave carbs' - I may crave pasta or potato for example and they may have carbs in  them but to to me they are different foods.

so I crave the taste not the nutrition make up of it

same as I may want roast beef or lamb chops, sure meat and they contain protein but to my taste, different things
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Ruf~Feral~es's Photo Ruf~Feral~es 14 Jun 2019

Not in my world.  Now that my kids are in senior school where lunchboxes are not policed and/or judged, I very rarely come across anyone who is preoccupied with anything outlandish.

That might say more about my social circle, or maybe our age?  (40's 50's).  A couple of vegetarians, few allergies - gluten intolerant etc.

As someone who has spent my life with disordered eating stemming from teenage battles with anorexia and bulimia, I have tried valiantly to not obsess about my kids eating, or to show any outward sign of my personal feelings towards food.  And looking at their diets, I think I've succeeded so far.

And personally, I think Pete Evans and anyone of his ilk should be slapped.
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*Nasty*Squeekums*'s Photo *Nasty*Squeekums* 14 Jun 2019

I've always thought this obsessing over food is bad.
Eat some of everything in moderation
Why deny a treat or 2? Food isn't meant to mean restriction, boredom and misery and your more likely to fail aka binge if you deny yourself a simple treat, then you beat yourself up for "failing" Its dangerous bs
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seayork2002's Photo seayork2002 14 Jun 2019

View Post*Nasty*Squeekums*, on 14 June 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

I've always thought this obsessing over food is bad.
Eat some of everything in moderation
Why deny a treat or 2? Food isn't meant to mean restriction, boredom and misery and your more likely to fail aka binge if you deny yourself a simple treat, then you beat yourself up for "failing" Its dangerous bs

I will admit to obsessing over food, hence why I have a whole cupboard dedicated to chocolate (although the cupboard is real I am joking about the obsessing bit)
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*Nasty*Squeekums*'s Photo *Nasty*Squeekums* 14 Jun 2019

View Postseayork2002, on 14 June 2019 - 11:36 AM, said:

I will admit to obsessing over food, hence why I have a whole cupboard dedicated to chocolate (although the cupboard is real I am joking about the obsessing bit)

That's not obsessing, that's prepping 101 and wise
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Chchgirl's Photo Chchgirl 14 Jun 2019

I feel like it's just another trend I don't care about.

I eat what I want but in moderation. I remember it used to be the trend of no carbs.  I eat carbs.

That $2 cheeseburger on thr maccas app is staring at me...
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zenkitty's Photo zenkitty 14 Jun 2019

I unfortunately take far too much joy in eating...

I agree with your observation, there is an obsession with food being “clean” or “healthy” but it’s just the latest fad much of the time.

I’ve been berated in a cafe by a complete stranger for ordering a skim milk coffee. I was told it was full of sugar and I would be better off having “proper” milk. Now, I am overweight, so maybe people think that invites advice, but I am ordering skim milk knowing full well that the natural (not added) sugar content is around 4.9% as opposed to the 4.7% naturally occurring in full cream milk PLUS I am basing that choice on the advice of a GP and dietician. That choice has helped me lose 20kg and reduce my cholesterol. I’m glad other people enjoy drinking full cream milk but I choose not to and my choice isn’t wrong or bad just because you’ve read an article on Facebook saying skim milk is full of sugar.
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lozoodle's Photo lozoodle 14 Jun 2019

Food is life. I could never restrict to those levels, probably why I am fat haha.

But even when I was thinner, I never cut anything out... just had a little more self control when it came to moderation.

Life is too short to not have the basic joys in it. We all end up dead anyway.
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Lucrezia Borgia's Photo Lucrezia Borgia 14 Jun 2019

i think they’ve taken something good (emphasis on fresh seasonal produce, minimal artificial additives, minimal salt, minimal sugar) - combined it with a genuine concern doctors and scientists have over increasing obesity rates - thrown some whacky pseudo science into the mix and now we’ve polarised the debate and no one can have a sensible discussion on this anymore. and i think we *should* have a discussion - but not like this. but these days you’re either a big mac eating, coke swilling food junkie or a pete evans kale loving anti vaxer.

i can’t comment on whether the clean food fad has contributed directly to a rise in eating disorders - i don’t know for a fact there is a rise, and i’m not at all qualified to draw a conclusion as to what might be contributing to it - my money would be on a combination of things though - if i had to hazard a guess - social media, the “look at me how perfect i am” rise of instagram and the like.
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Treasure Island's Photo Treasure Island 14 Jun 2019

While the type of diets might be new, the overall issue is not. I am 46 and have spent my life with a mother who obsesses over food and her weight. Food being "good" or "bad" has been around for a long time. The entire concept of food education needs to change.
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Riotproof's Photo Riotproof 14 Jun 2019

I did read this recently too. https://www.smh.com....531-p51t45.html
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SplashingRainbows's Photo SplashingRainbows 14 Jun 2019

I was furious this week to discover one of the options for my child to do for homework was to write a paragraph about why children should exercise more.

They’re 8.

The ‘shoulds’ and obsessions aren’t helpful.

I agree with you Riotproof.
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Lucrezia Borgia's Photo Lucrezia Borgia 14 Jun 2019

hmmm....i am definitely at odds with the EB consensus on this one - if it can be said there is a consensus - i think there broadly is, ive argued it on here before.

i think there *are* bad foods - in that - there’s really no nutritional benefit to eating it. a mars bar. yeh they taste good - i like them. cheezels - love them. but saying “food is life” i mean - we’re not including a cheezel in that. they are empty calories (that expression got such a fiery response last time i used it on here. it’s so interesting).

what’s wrong with telling kids to exercise? what’s wrong with a “should” narrative around different types of foods and physical activity?

i have been over weight during periods of my life, i have started an exercise regime. i love food. my only problem with food is that i like it too much. every doctor i have seen in the last ten years has talked to me about weight management - the need to maintain a healthy weight range particularly as i inch towards menopause. are they all wrong?

pete evans is an idiot. clean food is largely a w**k. but that doesn’t mean that the genuine efforts and concerns of health care professionals around reducing obesity are all nonsense and negative. and why not start this education with kids? what’s wrong with making kids aware - you are what you eat?
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zenkitty's Photo zenkitty 14 Jun 2019

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 14 June 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

i think there *are* bad foods - in that - there’s really no nutritional benefit to eating it. a mars bar. yeh they taste good - i like them. cheezels - love them. but saying “food is life” i mean - we’re not including a cheezel in that. they are empty calories (that expression got such a fiery response last time i used it on here. it’s so interesting).

I agree that there is junk food with empty calories. I am overweight and I know it impacts negatively on my health, I see patients with hip and knee replacements and know that’s me someday.

It’s easy to say Cheezels are bad for you and leafy greens are good for you, but the dividing line is tricky. Cheese has calcium and protein but also saturated fat. Dates have fibre but also sugar. It’s also the judgement of others that is problematic, maybe a person who is a pretty healthy eater wants a Mars bar, is there a safe level of consumption? Does somebody have the right to call out another for eating the “wrong” thing?

I don’t have the answers for any of that, but it’s an interesting discussion!
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seayork2002's Photo seayork2002 14 Jun 2019

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 14 June 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

hmmm....i am definitely at odds with the EB consensus on this one - if it can be said there is a consensus - i think there broadly is, ive argued it on here before.

i think there *are* bad foods - in that - there’s really no nutritional benefit to eating it. a mars bar. yeh they taste good - i like them. cheezels - love them. but saying “food is life” i mean - we’re not including a cheezel in that. they are empty calories (that expression got such a fiery response last time i used it on here. it’s so interesting).

what’s wrong with telling kids to exercise? what’s wrong with a “should” narrative around different types of foods and physical activity?

i have been over weight during periods of my life, i have started an exercise regime. i love food. my only problem with food is that i like it too much. every doctor i have seen in the last ten years has talked to me about weight management - the need to maintain a healthy weight range particularly as i inch towards menopause. are they all wrong?

pete evans is an idiot. clean food is largely a w**k. but that doesn’t mean that the genuine efforts and concerns of health care professionals around reducing obesity are all nonsense and negative. and why not start this education with kids? what’s wrong with making kids aware - you are what you eat?

I do agree with you!

I have lived places where kids really are brought up on junk food and takeaways, not just an urban myth.

We try and eat healthy and teach DS about healthy eating but no there is no way we can say we cook 100% from scratch.

I do think schools teaching healthy eating as exercise is a good thing and keeping canteens health but I do not agree with teachers inspecting kids lunches and telling them off.

I do not think healthy eating should be a marketing tool but it all well and good saying 'it is up to parents' because no all parents do teach kids about healthy eating.
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No Drama Please's Photo No Drama Please 14 Jun 2019

Because you turn eating from something which is a fun, enjoyable and essential part of life into something you need to be anxious and obsessive about. Ditto exercise, it’s important to make a part of your life and even enjoyable (if you find the right one!) but not turning it into something which is to be obsessed about.

I don’t like frightening kids into thinking they need to be paranoid about what they eat, or pushing them the idea that food is something you need to obsess over or be worried about.  Just encourage all types of different foods from different cultures and show all the benefits of eating fruit and veggies when in season without making kids feel guilty for their choices.
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EsmeLennox's Photo EsmeLennox 14 Jun 2019

I truly think the very old adage of 'everything in moderation' is a good one.

Enjoy different foods (even the 'bad' ones), but don't over-indulge.

I think the 'wellness' industry all round is quite dangerous because so much of it is so extreme. I'm a firm believer that any 'diet' that requires you to modify your eating habits to an extreme is stupid.
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seayork2002's Photo seayork2002 14 Jun 2019

View PostNo Drama Please, on 14 June 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

Because you turn eating from something which is a fun, enjoyable and essential part of life into something you need to be anxious and obsessive about. Ditto exercise, it’s important to make a part of your life and even enjoyable (if you find the right one!) but not turning it into something which is to be obsessed about.

I don’t like frightening kids into thinking they need to be paranoid about what they eat, or pushing them the idea that food is something you need to obsess over or be worried about.  Just encourage all types of different foods from different cultures and show all the benefits of eating fruit and veggies when in season without making kids feel guilty for their choices.

As we walk a lot we don't drill into DS about exercise but he is aware of it and learns a bit about it at scouts

He knows a lot about food from different cultures but one of the main things he has noticed is there are a lot cultures that cook more from scratch and heather then the west (I have a Greek background but he has had lots of different cultures food from the time he could eat)
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YodaTheWrinkledOne's Photo YodaTheWrinkledOne 14 Jun 2019

I think there is benefit in people recognising (a) the amount of food they eat and (b) whether the food they eat has nutritional benefit in keeping their body healthy or if it is nutritionally irrelevant. Eating healthily is a balance of those two aspects.
So, yes, I think some foods are "bad", particularly if eaten regularly or in high volumes. But of course you can eat nutritionally irrelevant (my phrase) food occasionally without freaking out about it as well, or feeling guilty.

However, any dietary obsession is never good, no matter which way you look at it (obsessing over "clean" food versus overeating "bad" food -> neither preoccupation is good, particularly if it interferes with your doing daily activities and enjoying life).
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Lucrezia Borgia's Photo Lucrezia Borgia 14 Jun 2019

there has to be line then between obsessing (which i agree is unhelpful) and just awareness that - like all our actions - food choices have consequences. there’s no harm in teaching kids that, IMO.
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~LemonMyrtle~'s Photo ~LemonMyrtle~ 14 Jun 2019

I hate labelling food. I hate it when my kids come home from kinder labelling foods because of some well
Meaning teacher. And I know many people who don’t seem to enjoy food at all. Every morning tea at work they question, and decline, and mention their diets and waistlines and weights. And it’s more than one person. It’s not healthy.

And so much of their ideas about which foods to avoid and which to eat have no scientific backing. It’s all based on the latest fads. Which is really concerning. Even the way they teach food and health at kinder and schools can vary depending on the latest fads and whatever the teacher read on the internet. So where do we go to educate ourselves?

I like the moderation movement. And I like old fashioned eat when you’re hungry, don’t eat when you’re not. And dont drink sweet things.

And I still enjoy my food and so does my family.
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